The wave of hysteria in response to the election of two BNP MEP’s I predicted is already well underway. It may be too late to stop the immediate headless chicken style political response to OH NO THE RACIST NAZI BNP GOT ELECTED LET’S PANIC (yesterday Unite Against Fascism called for a protest in Oxford, a city which has never had any BNP activity) but the following document is one of the best explanations of the rise of the BNP.
It’s outdated now, it was written 14 years ago, but it remains essential reading. In fact it has never been more relevant. In that time the Anti-Nazi League morphed into Unite Against Fascism while the main organisation behind Anti-Fascist Action became the Independent Working Class Assocation. It describes the limitations of straight-forward anti-fascism and why a political challenge to tackle the rise of the far right is necessary.
In November 1990, at a public meeting in east London, AFA declared that the “working class is the natural constituency of socialism, not fascism. Racism and socialism are incompatible. One only exists at the expense of the other. The success of the Far-Right is due to the fact that the Left are not seen as a credible option. AFA are committed to creating the space in which one (a credible alternative} can develop.”
Three years later, addressing a meeting in south-east London, an AFA spokesperson returned to the theme: “While the initial aim must be to root out the organised racists/fascists the motive force behind the attacks – and throw down a challenge to those that provide them with facilities, the long-term solution must be to create communities of resistance. By creating some space, perhaps in time a real working class alternative to the lying bullshit that now passes for politics in this country can emerge. The entire Left has failed the working class, black and white alike, though many prefer to believe that the working class has failed the Left. We are here today, not only because they (the Left) are bad socialists but more specifically because they are bad antifascists”.
In 1994 in a widely distributed expose of the Anti-Nazi League [Don't Believe the Hype], AFA was even more specific. “The BNP can be stopped and on many occasions up and down the country AFA has physically stopped them. However we are not blind to the fact that the fight is political, and accept that the resurgence of support for the Far-Right is a symptom of a deeper malaise. We do not see it as our job to campaign for Labour. It is not AFA’s role to argue that change is not needed. The function of anti-fascism is not to see the electoral threat from the Far-Right beaten back so that Labour and the middle-class Left can, as happened between 1982-92, turn their backs on both the social causes and their own collaboration in the political betrayal that gave rise to the NF and the BNP in the first place.”
The ambition of militant anti-fascism is not simply to see the Far-Right defeated and removed from working class areas: the ultimate solution is to see them replaced there. The BNP’s attack on Labour is from the Right and is racist, ultra-conservative and anti-working class, Our primary role is to guarantee that a successful challenge to Labour comes only from the Left. Furthermore, and’ purely from an anti-fascist point of view, as the best insurance against any nazi renaissance, it would be the duty of militants to offer protection and encouragement to any genuine [anti-Labour] working class revolt.
When AFA was relaunched in London in September 1989 it was accepted that while AFA was still organised around the single issue of anti-fascism, “AFA propaganda must contain a class message” in order “to negate the efforts by the fascists to present AFA as a bunch of middle-class outsiders,, part and parcel of the Establishment, working in the long-term interests of the status quo”.
Much has changed since 1989, not least the fact that AFA is now a national organisation with over forty branches organised in four main regions each with the physical ability to forcefully implement AFA’s founding statement on the streets. In addition other organisations such as the ANL, ARA and YRE have jumped on – and off – the bandwagon. The early nineties also saw the return to electoral prominence of the Far-Right not just in Britain but throughout Europe. The success of AFA on the streets also led to the birth of the wannabe paramilitary grouping C18.
In another tribute to AFA’s militant strategy the BNP declared in April 1994 that there would be ” no more marches, meetings, punch-ups ” A year on, this declaration must now be regarded as a serious change of strategy, something other than a temporary electoral ploy or an effort to court respectability. There appear to be at least two crucial reasons for the change of strategy. One, undoubtedly, is that since their resurgence to national prominence, AFA have fought the BNP to a standstill. In 1991 Scotland was regarded by the BNP leadership as its highest growth area and the area with possibly the greatest potential. Today the BNP no longer visibly exists. Literally beaten into the ground by anti-fascist militants.
In the North West the BNP organisation and morale has all but been destroyed. A similar pattern is emerging in the Midlands. In the South East the fascists have been constantly harassed. Apart from the east and possibly south east they are practically invisible in London.
In many of these areas the politics of the BNP undoubtedly have a resonance, but they are unable to take advantage of the latent support due to the logistical problems caused by the constant possibility of attack and their own profile as ‘a party of strength’. One way to resolve the problem would be to recruit, but they cannot have open recruitment for fear of infiltration. In addition the fear of physical violence means that they are unable to bring their more articulate middle class supporters onto the streets for fear of losing them entirely.
The situation in Europe would also have played an influence. Here the fascists, particularly in Austria and Italy, have recognised that with the demise of the support for the communist parties there is no need for a visibly menacing counter threat. If there is no physical danger, fascists do not need to hide behind a sinister private army. The battle for control of the streets need not be fought if control is not being contested. If the end can be achieved without the traditional means there is no need for the rough stuff. In Britain, with the absence of any tangible political threat to their adopted working class constituency the argument for a physical force movement to contest the streets becomes not only void but instead represents a serious impediment to their own political ambitions – only!
Since their meteoric climb in 1990 in not one area of the country, despite significant sympathy on the ground, have they for more than one day at a time been able to control the streets; Bermondsey, Bloody Sunday and the Isle of Dogs being the exceptions. More often than not in regard to the large set pieces they have been humiliated. And even when they have won, the victory has gained them nothing except a confirmation of what already sustains them; that Labour and the Left are increasingly alien to working class people. So in a sense for them simply to continue with the strategy of “marches, meetings, punch ups” only provides an enemy that has already lost the fundamental arguments -Labour/ANL/Trotskyism, etc. (or in the case of AFA which has failed to put an argument) – with a legitimate political excuse/focus, ie: anti-BNP. The BNP policy of open swaggering aggression also affords an organisation like AFA a legitimate opportunity to answer in kind, and in doing so physically destroy the BNP’s political prospects by crippling its infra-structure. With AFA having no polltical prospects of its own they are on a hiding to nothing.
It takes two to tango, so what of AFA’s reason for being if the BNP decide that they don’t want to play anymore? Certainly in London, AFA has only been able to seriously damage the Far-Right once recently. If this is a permanent change of plan there is a serious danger that AFA, without the physical challenge for which it was designed, will itself begin to lose direction and begin to atrophy.
The flip side of the coin is that C18, who have no electoral ambitions either, don’t do anything but ‘play’. The ideal solution for both the State and the Far-Right would be for AFA to get locked into a clandestine gang war with C18, thereby allowing the State to select candidates of their own choosing for periods of lengthy incarceration. That done, the now entirely legal BNP could go about their lawful business like their European counterparts, articulating ‘genuine racial concerns’ unhindered.
Furthermore, if the BNP operation is made entirely legal and if AFA physically opposes them, then our operation is de facto illegal. The BNP then might reasonably expect, in return for their collaboration with the forces of law and order, that the tactic of summary arrest be employed against AFA on a consistent basis. Circumstances are changing and AFA needs to adapt.
Fascism is the vanguard of reaction. It is at once the manifestation, the contributory cause and principle beneficiary of society’s decomposition. Unlike the rest of the anti-racist Left, AFA’s emphasis has always been on the political danger represented by fascism, while others such as Searchlight and the ANL have laid the emphasis on their violent and criminal tendencies. In addition they refuse or are unwilling to recognise that anti-fascism is by definition a rearguard action and that fascism is the consequence, rather than the cause, of the Left’s failure. Inevitably the strategies adopted to combat fascism carry with them the germs of the strategies that caused fascism, invariably leading to compound failure. So while it cannot be denied that the ANL’s media campaign focused public attention on the problem, it also proved to be a distraction in regard to the solution.
One of AFA’s strengths in its formative years was its limited platform; the ’single issue’. This concentration weeded out or repelled the sectarians, the ‘tough talkers’ and the dilettantes. However, during the Isle of Dogs campaign, the ’single issue’ exposed AFA’s limitations. AFA had to nothing to say on the principle business.
AFA has long recognised that once the Far-Right is allowed to mobilise, is allowed to set the agenda, and has passed a certain point, they begin to control their own destinies – and their opponent’s. Once that point is reached it would be useless and possibly counter-productive to rely upon a purely anti-fascist stance, primarily because people look to politics for solutions. It might be clear what you stand against, though their understanding of what you stand for will effectively determine their overall response.
As the activities of the ANL on the Isle of Dogs demonstrated (despite blanket canvassing the BNP vote actually rose by 30%), an anti-fascist message on its own would find little favour with working class people, even those repelled by the BNP, if they suspected that it was simply a spoiling tactic, carried out by allies of the local Labour establishment in an effort to maintain the status quo. AFA has never fought to maintain the status quo, but, even at their most effective, antifascist militants can never hope to achieve anything more than to maintain that vacuum. There is little doubt that the vacuum has been successfully maintained but now, in the absence of any other suitable candidates, it is incumbent on the anti-fascist militants to help fill the vacuum themselves.
The working class is increasingly alienated from Labour, the BNP’s strategy is entirely reliant upon this alienation: ‘they really hate Labour’ etc. The total ineptitude and the tangible contempt that exists in some areas between Labour and its former constituency has locally and nationally begat the BNP. And fascism begat anti-fascism. In straightforward language, it is the politics of the Labour Party that has created the BNP. So by acting as campaign managers for Labour, the ANL are are prostituting anti-fascism, and instead of being identified with a radical, pro-working class position, anti-fascism is seen to be defending the status quo, thereby practically forcing people who want change to vote BNP, out of sheer desperation. They are literally driving people into the arms of the fascists. Up to now it is entirely due to the cutting edge of AFA that the passive support has remained just that. But it is unrealistic to expect that vacuum to be maintained indefinitely.
Nor as working class militant anti-fascists can we stand on the sidelines, wringing our hands hopelessly. We have to take a stand. And we have to take that stand against Labour. Not simply in a theoretical sense, but in an organisational sense. It is vital that the working class on the estates, seriously alienated from Labour, are provided with an alternative to the BNP. The election of a Labour government will be a massive shot in the arm for the Far-Right. It is also very possible that in the subsequent local elections the Isle of Dogs scenario could be repeated on a national scale, and all our good work in the last decade would be undone at a stroke.
What is needed is a new organisation. In all probability the impetus of the Clause Four controversy will cause a realignment on the Left that will give it birth. It is not being suggested that AFA disband and becomes this organisation. It is as vital as ever,. that AFA maintains its own structures ‘and agenda. Nor is it being suggested that AFA create this new organisation. This would hardly be possible in any case. What must be recognised is that it will happen with or without AFA. AFA contains the best working class militants in the country. It is absolutely vital that in order to shape the organisation in its own image, AFA is in from the very beginning. To shape it in AFA’s own image would mean stipulating from the outset a) a democratic structure, built from the bottom up rather than from the top down; b) rather than appeal to a mythical ‘labour movement’ the strategy requires an orientation to, and an accommodation of, the working class proper; c) non-sectarian. This does not mean being forced to work with everybody; it means working alongside others towards a common goal, but making no apology for a refusal to collaborate on any project for which you have no enthusiasm, or with those with whom you fundamentally disagree.
In any case it must be obvious that to stand aloof would be an unmitigated disaster. That would allow the middle classes once again to set the agenda. AFA has been dealing with the consequences of their agenda for over a decade. It would be criminally negligent to allow our adversaries to fill the space we have created and maintained in that time. This is an opportunity to add a string to AFA’s bow. It will be a complement to, rather than a deviation from, vigorous anti-fascist activity.
Even on a limited tactical basis the benefits of an independent working class organisation operating alongside AFA would be immediate and widespread. AFA could, for the first time, campaign for something instead of merely campaigning against something – and campaign legally.
AFA could be pro-active as well as reactive. There would be no breathing space for the likes of the BNP. And, for as much as an embryonic association might welcome AFA’s physical presence, the situation demands that AFA avails itself of a wider political platform than was hitherto considered either necessary or available. For the first time since the thirties militant anti-fascism would be associated with solutions rather than simply violent actions and threats.’ For the first time, too, involved with setting the agenda rather than clearing up the political mess left by someone else’s.
Ultimately the challenge for AFA is not only to destroy the BNP in working class areas but to replace them there. So the political message, to have resonance, will have to be deeper and more comprehensive. A straight forward antifascist parable, a simple refutation of the ‘radical’ in nationalism will, on its own, prove unsatisfactory.
If AFA’s efforts are to culminate in victory we must seek to replace them, but to replace them we must not only outviolence them, we must also out radicalise them.
78 Comments
June 11, 2009 at 7:15 pm
The UAF,is that the group lead by the handsome and charismatic Weyman Bennett?
Does this mean a resurgence in people walking around with placards and giant lollipops,throwing eggs and chanting silly slogans?
Of course it does,but you will be wasting your time folks so stop getting in a tizzy because things aren’t going your way politically.
June 12, 2009 at 9:51 am
I wouldn’t call the BNP getting 5% of the vote “not going our way politically”.
I’d call it less than last time.
June 13, 2009 at 10:32 am
Unfortunately it does mean open season on students waving placards and chanting about Naaarrrssseee scum.
June 12, 2009 at 12:18 am
[...] Thanks to Duncan for highlighting this article from Anti-Fascist Action, now 14 years old but utterly timely. This document – “filling the vacuum” led to [...]
June 12, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Have you seen this yet?
http://www.iwca.info/?p=10141
June 13, 2009 at 9:55 am
No I hadn’t, cheers Nick.
The analysis of the current situation by the IWCA is perceptive and for 10 years they have been able to formulate the problem the left face clearly. What they haven’t been able to do is provide the solution.
The berating of the left for failure is also something the IWCA has been doing for the best part of a decade but now our failure to tackle the BNP politically is their failure as well.
That article talks about how successful the IWCA ‘pilot schemes’ were but doesn’t say anything about why those schemes failed, why the IWCA seems to have atrophied even in the places it gained a foothold like Oxford and doesn’t explain how these pilot schemes will become a national organisation.
June 12, 2009 at 2:24 pm
The article reflects what sensible Leftists have been saying for a while now. The UAF/Hope not Hate approach is not only a busted flush, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s actually counterproductive. What is desperately needed is a socialist organisation to provide an alternative, not just an amalgamation of a few existing Far Left groups, most of who will just put off workers. We need people already involved in campaigns at local level, a few militant trade unions and level-headed socialists to come together in a genuinely democratic body that has some core beliefs, has discussions about the important stuff, then makes decisions that everyone should then abided by, and then we get out there and actually doing things. The last thing we need is a talking shop, navel-gazing, dominated by the usual windbags and blowhards who can’t even talk to working class people.
June 12, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I should imagine that UAF are protesting in Oxford in order to gain a few students as members of the SWP.
The SWP always seems to think membership churn first, working-class second.
June 13, 2009 at 12:55 pm
As far as a large-scale left-wing alternative party goes, I think the left has become a tad too distracted by the election of two BNP members to notice that in practically every single area of Britain all the left-wing alternative parties as well as Labour were absolutley smashed by the Tories in the English and Euro elections. People don’t want an alternative to the right-wing because a massive portion of the population have voted with their feet to tell us our policies are the ones they want most. (4,198,394 Tory votes in total for the UK EU). Yes you can say “it was a low turn out”, but a victory is a victory.
P.S, Daniel Hoffmann-Gill ,the BNP didn’t get “5%” of the vote, by got 6.2% – a slight error granted but an error nonetheless.
June 14, 2009 at 4:05 pm
a massive portion of the population
4.2 million people voted Tory and 2.5 million voted UKIP.
That’s a lot of people but this is a country of 60 million people.
Furthermore, what are ‘your’ policies that the massive portion of the population have voted for? UKIP and the Tories have totally different policies on the European Union.
In fact, I would argue that one of the main reasons (apart from Labour unpopularity and the desire to give them an electoral kicking – again not a positive endorsement of Tory politics) ‘call me Dave’ Cameron’s Conservatives have won so many votes is because he appears on TV and in Tory literature as some sort of wet liberal.
June 13, 2009 at 9:22 pm
@ Mr Hoffman-Gill,for a party that endures endless media slurs and outrageous lies,they are actually doing rather well.On top of this the powers that be,the ruling elite,are doing everything in their power to abolish the BNP.
Prepare yourself for the next wave of absurd race ‘laws’ as panic sets in.
The crusties of the UAF are doing themselves no favours whatsoever.They are exposing themselves for the thugs that they are.Very brave when the odds are ten to one.
On a side note check out on Youtube – ‘BNP vs UAF
the Tommy Boyd Show playradiouk’.Listen to Weyman Bennett make an absolute tit of himself,it’s hilarious as he spits his dummy out and goes into a sulk refusing to talk to Simon Derby and has to use the presenter as a go -between.You antis and lefties really need to think hard who you use as a mouthpiece without opting for the token black man.
June 14, 2009 at 12:12 pm
It must be a little tiring for BNP supporters to have to play the vicitm card all the time because that is, quite frankly, all you seem to do. You mistake the genuine loathing of the BNP’s policies for some sort of bias, which is what you would do as you see the policies as valid, which is of course your right.
You also create win-win positions by stating that the party may have done worse then last time but that is a success because of the handicap you are presented with, then if you do end up doing better than expected (god forbid) you can play the same card again.
Politics at it’s worst one could argue?
Then your language is totally set within the parameters of violence, us and them, which doesn’t bode well for anyone to take you at all seriously and to move beyond the idea of BNP as terrible thugs with a chip on their shoulder based on racist ideas.
June 13, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Southerner don’t kid yourself: the establishment wants the BNP thugs to be in reserve, incase the working-class gets ideas above its station – in their eyes anyway.
Lets think – what is the real message – every time the Daily Express, for example, has a negative frontpage headline about immigrants and then a page 3 article saying don’t vote BNP because they’re anti-immigrant.
However, the elite don’t back the BNP because they’re anti-immigrant: that’s just the sprat to catch the mackerel. Its the BNP policies lurking in the background they like: no free trade unions, low-wages, class-based society, private schools, privilege, divide-and-rule etc.
This rise in fascist support at the moment is just a symtom of the malaise and discontent in society. The working-class is searching for an alternative and voting BNP is like the lion crouching before pouncing: the pounce however will be a socialist society.
June 14, 2009 at 2:41 am
southerner,
Don’t expect anything but mindless abuse from that Islamaphobic Nazi troll, friend.
I called him out another thread, this is what he does, this is what he thrives on: abuse, extreme profanity and being the centre of attention.
Have a look at his blog and his usage of racist terms such as ‘pikey’, his Islamaphobia and follow some of the links and you will see that “subhuman c****” is one of his favourite terms (a term the Nazis were very fond of by the way) along with insults about peoples dead mothers and insults about peoples fathers raping them.
I am not a fan of the term “troll” but if it really means anything then it means this disgusting and sick weirdo.
Denzil,
Now that is one hell of a consiparcy theroy fella!! Any sort of proof?
In fact it is because of the disillusionment of the left in general that I stopped voting Labour and I know many have; the left do not address the root concerns of us ordinary British white working class people and never will because they are too busy playing political games with us all and planning for a world revolution; I know that now.
And so do at least a million Britons.
June 14, 2009 at 2:41 am
The only real question is, will they be any viable alternative for us to the BNP who will address our concerns?
June 14, 2009 at 12:13 pm
What are your concerns?
June 14, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I find it oddly funny you reply to yourself.
Your personal attacks are ill founded and based on some selctive web-stalking.
And you call me weird?
Good boy.
June 14, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Let’s give it a rest shall we.
June 14, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Yes, you’re right, sorry Duncan.
June 18, 2009 at 10:01 am
If you have no anti-immigration party to vote for then the people will take matters into their own hands as witnessed in Belfast this week…
Some immigrants will be killed(not that i have any problem with that!) and all because snivelling left-wing shits like yourself are opposed to the concept of democracy and people being able to oppose immigration WITHOUT the use of violence…
June 19, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Don’t be silly.
June 19, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Glad you said that, I find it quite funny that this chap wears his racism like a badge of pride and I suppose you have to if you’re a bit of a twonk.
Otherwise, you’d be embarassed by your own ideas.
June 24, 2009 at 1:08 am
Who’s being silly and naive?!
So you admit racism is not that big of a problem any more?!
You honestly think if the BNP are disbanded racial violence will also disappear off the radar and we’ll all live happily ever after in your marxist faggot-tolerant jew-friendly utopia?!
I think your islamic buddies might have other plans!
June 23, 2009 at 10:44 am
Can I say how much I thank you for posting this.
Doug and you said our campaigm, which consisted of distibuting Hope Not Hate leaflets to around 11,000 houses on Estates, would not work.
It didn’t. The fash got around 700 votes (for a first time believe me this is massive).
I have had a lot more success organising young unemployed in Ipswich Unemployment Action (from same Estate btw).
Class struggle and the AFA approach is the way forward. We will crush the fash!
June 27, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Andrew Coates bleats:
“I have had a lot more success organising young unemployed in Ipswich Unemployment Action (from same Estate btw). ”
Organizing the unemployed?!
How did you manage that… Bribe the lazy bastards with special brew?! The genuine non-parasite unemployed would tell you to fuck off in no uncertain terms!
No doubt “Ipswich Unemployment Action” is some common purpose style “charity” that works with ‘underprivileged’ youngsters i.e. druggies, criminals, drop-outs, outcasts, negroes and the retarded…
Perfect UAF scumbags in other words!
June 27, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Good grief Britain Fast Asleep, you are a terrible daft racist.
June 27, 2009 at 10:14 pm
How does being opposed to bone idle, nothing to live for scroungers being used by violent communists constitute being racist or even fascist?!
June 28, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Your view of those on benefits is flawed.
As is you use of the words ‘negroes’ ‘retarded’ ‘faggot’ ‘jew friendly’ in the context which you use them.
Britain is most definately half asleep.
June 28, 2009 at 11:58 pm
@ Hoffers-Gill…
You say: “Your view of those on benefits is flawed”
How would you know with a double barrelled name like ‘Hoffman-Gill’?
Are they not bone-idle because you bribe them with a bottle of ice dragon to dredge your moat?!
June 29, 2009 at 9:13 am
@Britain Having a Lie-In:
Your view of those on benefits is not not only flawed but also unrealisitic and narrow minded, of little suprise considering your vocabulary and the simple level of your ideas overall.
This simplicity of thought and mind is also best refelcted in your knee-jerk reaction to my name, where double barralled must instantly equal rich. If only life was that simple, clearly you like such basic ideas, easier to grasp no doubt about those on benefits being scroungers and those that aren’t are decent hard working folk.
A little odd considering that those on JSA is increasing rapidly due to the global economic situation, are all of these people lazy? Of course not and this goes for the majority on JSA, a bebefit that is there for those that have been working and for what ever reason become unemployed.
Indeed, I’ve worked with both young people and adults, helping them get off JSA and into work, my success rate was high or should I say their success rate was high.
The vast majority of those on JSA want to work, as quite simply it is not enough to live on, even with Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit and I should know, working with these people and also having two brief spells in my life on JSA also.
You really have no idea, you reach for simple, easy to grasp ideas that fit your limited view of humanity and then run your mouth off like a vulgar troll.
Fair enough, your words and ideas hang you.
July 6, 2009 at 6:08 am
@ Hoffers-Gill…
You say: “I’ve worked with both young people and adults, helping them get off JSA and into work”
Bollocks! The ‘jobs’ you have coerced them into are poorly paid and degrading! You honestly think you are helping these people don’t you?! If i was on the dole i’d tell interfering busy-bodies like you to fuck off!
If people want work they don’t need twats like you to find them it!
July 6, 2009 at 8:47 am
Britain Having an Afternoon Nap, Before Popping to M&S for a few bits:
I find it odd how you seem to know the jobs I help the people in question get? In reality, the jobs were very varied, from trainee architects, to landscape gardeners, theatre technicains, through to mechanics, vets and care workers and of course retail staff in a huge variety of employers. None of the jobs were degrading and all of them were paid above minimum wage and many, far beyond.
And they weren’t coerced, they wanted to work in those areas.
And yes, I and many others are helping because some people need support to get into work, either becuase they confidence is low or that they intially alck the skills to get the work so we help with training or interview technique or just making the CV work better so that the skills and abilities they have come across to a possible employer.
Your knowledge of job seeking is narrow and confused indeed.
July 6, 2009 at 8:12 pm
@ Hoffers-Gill…
You say: “I and many others are helping because some people need support to get into work”
The only people you help is greedy employers and yourself!
If these fuckers can’t get work without self-righteous do-gooders like you butting in, then they don’t deserve employment.
But there again, what sort of employer looks to the likes of you for staff anyway?!
Cunts like you are the source of this country’s problem, a company would rather approach you in order to get some low-life who’ll work (or be forced to work) for a pittance, rather than employ normal genuine people through the normal channels!
I can’t condemn these doleys when we have wankers like you press-ganging them into work for unscrupulous, profit-hungry bastards!
My knowledge of ‘jobseeking’ is not narrow or confused at all, coming from a working-class area most young people I know are claiming some form of benefit or forced into compulsory ‘training’ which basically means working for £1.53 an hour!
Stop patting yourself on the back Hoffers, you are nothing more than a slave trader you pompous old bastard!
July 6, 2009 at 8:20 pm
Tired Britain:
This is getting circular and clearly pointless talking to you as you don’t know anything about the subject matter at hand and you are dead-set in your opinions and backward ideas with no way of breaking the tedious cycle of your own tiny thoughts, a closed mind.
“The only people you help is greedy employers and yourself!”
Wrong, the people help themselves into good jobs or do you not like people working? I thought you hated those on benefits? You seem confused.
The idea that helping someone into work is self-righteous when in reality it is a job built on kindness and supporting people to be the best they can is clearly alien to your own simple and brutal perspective.
I hope that one day you or someone you love needs a service where they are helped by someone, perhaps then you’ll learn humility and go and help someone yourself. Kindness is not to be sniffed at.
I worked for Connexions, a government agency that supports 13-19 in education, training and work.
All the jobs we secured were well paid, you seem to be ignoring this to fit your own views.
You have a limited experience of life it seems.
No one was press ganged, their was no profit, it was public sector work.
Finally, you show your sad ignorarance by using the term slave trader, really, you are a desperate creature.
July 6, 2009 at 10:15 pm
You worked for Connexions, a government agency that supports 13-19 in education, training and work…
Interfering state bastards in other words!
The youth of this country need proper jobs not tax-payer funded shit like Connexions, employment training, new deal or whatever else they want to call it!
Then you bleat on:
“The idea that helping someone into work is self-righteous when in reality it is a job built on kindness and supporting people to be the best they can is clearly alien to your own simple and brutal perspective.”
Shove your kindness and support up your backside, the money saved employing arsewipes like you could be spent better elsewhere!
Get a real job that contributes to the economy instead of the parasitic nature of your current position!
July 6, 2009 at 11:37 pm
PS. I’ve just had a look on the ‘Connexions’ website…
What has relationships, racism, bereavement, bullying etc. got to do with employment?!
“The government is spending £3 million on ‘peer mentoring’ schemes to help stop bullying in schools. Peer mentoring involves older, trusted pupils being trained to stop bullying and to help pupils who are being bullied.”
Taxes wasted trying to stop natures natural selection process!
What a crock of shit!
July 7, 2009 at 10:30 am
And it goes on…dear me. The only good thing is the more you type, the worse you look.
I find it funny that you dismiss Connexions, an agency that has reduced youth unemployment, increased training option for young people who leave school with little qualifications, as well as advocated for young people across the UK doing grand work as “interfering state bastards”.
Clearly, you’re an idiot who knows little of the benefits of good public service.
Just be clear with you, as your knowledge of the global economy seems as limited as your grasp of the public sector, we are in a global recession, jobs across the board are effected, ‘proper jobs’ as you call them cannot be invented from thin air, even you must get that?
Unless you’re suggesting some form of Communism? So that the government runs and owns all business? Seeing how many times you call Socialists names here I doubt you mean that, I just think you’re trotting out tired, failed arguments because you lack any real ideas of your own.
“Shove your kindness and support up your backside, the money saved employing arsewipes like you could be spent better elsewhere!”
Clearly, not true. You seem to be from the school of thought (and I use that word loosely), that seems to think that if you destoryed all public secotr work they’d be more money for…what exactly?
Agencies like Connexions save the tax payer millions by reducing the amount of young people doing nothing thus reducing crime, they increase the skill levels of our young people so as better equip them for work in a global market and more importantly, it reduces the number of young people claiming benefits.
So, once again, you’re horribly wrong.
The idea that helping people to be better people and thus the massive effect that has upon the wider British community is to you not somehow useful clearly shows that you are depressed, angry and clearly very upset most of the time. I would suggest that you could do with some kindness and assistance in life.
“What has relationships, racism, bereavement, bullying etc. got to do with employment?!”
All of them are barriers to learning, if you don’t learn you have more chance of leaving school with no qualifications, if you leave school with no qualifications it is harder to get further education, training and work, thus leads to increase in youth crime, violence and unemployment and a drain on the benenfits system.
Are you keeping up with all this because really, it shouldn’t need to be explained to an adult with any intelligence at all?
Your dismissal of the peer mentoring sceme as: “Taxes wasted trying to stop natures natural selection process!” best illustrates the negative, harmful and destructive impulse of your personality, clearly you’re an unhappy person with low self-esteem and seriously, you should get some help.
You seem to be suggesting that bullies are the superiour people and that people who are bullied should be ‘destroyed’, no wonder you’re a Nazi sympathiser.
Trouble is, consider someone in your family (although I do hope you’ve not been breeding and spreading the deformed DNA), a child and then I suggest that if they are being bullied and that their life is runied by that physical violence, they deserve it and should be left on the scrap heap?
Cruel indeed but of little surprise to me considering your world view is limited, odd and holding a brutality that comes only from the simplest of minds.
Poor chap.
July 8, 2009 at 1:42 am
Thanks for the psychology lesson Hoffers…
Listen you mug… You can snivel about with the dispossessed all you fucking want, but at the end of the day they’ll still hate you!
Liberal cunts like you give false hope, you swallow all that hippy leftist bullshit and you expect others to swallow it too!
YOUTH WORKER: LOL!
Look at the state of the youth of this country, and cunts like you are getting paid to encourage this drug-addled, sexually confused, bone-idle shower of shit!
The youth of Britain are the laughing stock of the world with their teenage pregnancies, knife crime, suicide rate, drink & drug culture etc…
Well done Hoffers-G, we now know who’s making them like that… Pompous, mealy-mouthed liberal marxist arseholes like you!
CONNEXIONS:
Connexions is merely a waste of tax-payers money employing the likes of you to make unemployment figures look good. Nothing more than that! Why should the tax-payer foot the bill for this nonsense, when an employer realistically should be doing it themselves!
BULLYING:
Bullying is a natural phenomenon… Be it physical, psychological, emotional or even financial. This shit happens on a daily basis and there’s fuck all woolly-headed guardian-reading lice like you will ever do to stop it!
Why interfere with natures way of determining the pecking order unless you have your own agenda – which you clearly do, otherwise you wouldn’t be working with vulnerable youngsters…
SAD MAN:
Yes Hoffers, you are a real sad bastard, the beauty of it being you will eventually perish at the hands of those you try to befriend and help…
The irony of that is completely lost on the likes of you!
July 8, 2009 at 10:50 am
So it goes on, how tedious but glad you’re grateful for my advice, seriously, get some help for all the anger you’re full of, it’s twisting your world view.
Your sweeping idea that the dipossessed as you call them hate everyone is wrong, again, first off such a grouping does not exist, you seem to be making out that all unemployed are dispossessed which is incorrect, also, in all my time of working with people in crisis or poverty the level of hate is usually directed at themselves the most; which is what I’m sensing with you and then taken out on other parts of society.
And there is nothing false about hope, you need to get some in your life.
The youth of this country is actually in a good state, youth unemployment up to around November of last year was the lowest in Europe, although by no means perfect our young people top academic charts and are some of the most sort after graduates in the world. They have their problems, mainly a reflection of the British way of life and culture but they are certainly a subject of hope.
For simple minded people like you they are a whipping boy for your prejudice and own loathing of your failures in youth.
As for being a laughing stock, again, that is not the case, we have our issues with teenage pregnancy certainly but that is a reflection of poor sexual health lessons and also British culture and it’s attitudes to alcohol. The people to blame are not actually the young people but to a certain degree parenting in the UK and also our culture but we are heading in the right direction, I get the feeling that you need to seek out the bad in order to have purpose in your life.
Just to be clear, I’m not pompous, mealy-mouthed, a liberal or a marxist arsehole, you get so many things wrong each time you comment it must fill you with rage at how you fail but I could help you if only you’d be open to it.
As for Connexions, you trot out tired old right-wing lies and knee-jerk responses that I don’t even think are your own but rather learned, parrot fashion ideas that have no basis in reality or evidence.
Connexions is and was a great success, lowering youth unemployment to record low levels and also increasing the training and education options for those that didn’t do so well in school, leaving no one behind and trying to get everyone to broaden their minds and to learn.
Something you could do with and clearly you are jealous not to have been able to do something like this but your bitterness is directed at other people, which is a shame.
Also, from your comments you don’t seem to understand what Connexions does so maybe best if you read some more books and educate yourself a little, rather than, as you always do, talking about what you don’t know about.
Bullying is not a natural phenomenon when it destroys peoples lives, as it can do and lead people to take their own lives or harm others themselves.
Banter and rough and tumble is part of life but the systematic belittling of someone else based on perceived weaknesses that leads to emotional trauma is only condoned by those who are mentally weak and bullies themsleves.
It does not surprise me that you support bullying (what a horrible example you are, I hope you don’t have kids as they are the ones I would be working with, you are a text book awful parent) and dismiss it’s impact. You are a damaged individual.
You seem to think that a pecking order in life is based on bullying those beneath you? What a nasty, destructive and pathetic view of life that is, I pity you, your life must be a barren sad little affair with no redeeming features apart from shouting your mouth off on the Internet.
In your twisted logic, physical power to harm others makes you stronger? Good grief man, pull yourself together, in your world the Yorkshire Ripper is a figure of power and to be admired you sick man.
Your words damage you and show you to be a damaged person indeed.
And it will frustrate you horribly to know that I will not perish at the hands of those I help, what a sick and deranged thought, wishing murder onto another human you’re talking with in a comment section on a blog. Reflect on that, see what that makes you and perhaps you’ll come to understand that you are in need of help for all the rage, anger and violence you feel, a sign of deep pain and depression.
If you’re weren’t so vile I’d pity you.
PS: you don’t understand what irony is, can I recommend a training course for you to go on?
July 8, 2009 at 10:53 am
And don’t think I have’t noticed that when I crush one of your silly ideas you just drop it and move on.
You’re in denial.
July 8, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Youth unemployment up to around November of last year was the lowest in Europe: Yes, because they are being forced into sub-NMW new deal placements! Thats a fact as at least 2 lads i know have been made to partake or lose all benefits!
The people to blame are not actually the young people but to a certain degree parenting: Oh of course that old chestnut… Blame the parents, blame alcohol, blame drugs, blame discrimination, but we must never lay the blame on the teachers, youth workers or god forbid – the actual scumbags themselves!
I’m not pompous, mealy-mouthed, a liberal or a marxist arsehole: Yes you are, a middle class southern one at that!
Connexions: Presumably funded by the tax-payer, if these kids didn’t learn anything whilst at school, then tough titty! That’s actually a reflection on how bad the teachers of today really are!
Clearly you are jealous not to have been able to do something like this(connexions): Yeah clearly jealous that i didn’t have to be enrolled on a remedial scheme for retards where cunts like you would encourage me to ‘broaden my mind’…
Bullying is not a natural phenomenon when it destroys peoples lives: It destroys the lives of the weak and pathetic!
The systematic belittling of someone: Yeah like this government does to every decent hard working British citizen at the expense of the lazy, perverted and unwelcome!
I hope you don’t have kids as they are the ones I would be working with: Why would you come into any contact with my kids you fucking weirdo?!
Your life must be a barren sad little affair with no redeeming features apart from shouting your mouth off on the Internet: Oh right, so because i show no respect for the likes of you and the scum you are trying to ‘help’ you automatically go into psychologist mode and make general assumptions about my life… Yeah whatever Sigmund, I’m not the one who needs to hang around with a load of drop-outs to give my life some sort of meaning!
July 8, 2009 at 3:05 pm
PS. Mug…
I never wished murder upon you, I merely stated a lot of these people you try to ‘help’ don’t fucking want it, and one day they’ll turn on you!
July 8, 2009 at 3:52 pm
As someone who worked in that sector I can say with full assurance and knowledge that people were not forced into anything, I was not involved with New Deal as most young people are not unemployed for longer than 6 months. But the young people I worked with were put into good college or training courses or were found work and Modern Apprenticeship Schemes with guaranteed jobs, as long as they were good employees of course, no job was given by default.
New Deal is a program that long term unemployed are made to do for their benefits, the idea being that if you are unemployed for over 6 months, you must be picky or in need or some training. It is an arm twist but one to stop long-term benefit abuse.
If you worked with young people at all you’d know that parents have a key role to play in the child’s attitudes and life, it is not blame but the full picture, there is not an easy answer as you seem to think.
Again, just because you repeat it doesn’t make it right, your name calling is childish at best. And I may live in London you web stalker but I’m from Nottingham.
Your ideas for policy of how to deal with young people who fail at school would lead to an increase in crime, an increase in society falling apart and an increase in prison population and thus an increase in taxes to pay for the massive prison population.
We do not want to move back into your dark ages, you have no concept of the reality of social policy.
And the idea that teachers are bad today, you make me laugh, you trot out all the old chestnuts don’t you? Fiction, educational achievement is strong, not prefect but strong. You love scapegoats don’t you?
Considering you language, attitude and style of name calling I would suggest you’re perfect for a Connexions problem but too old no doubt.
Again the idea that lives deserve to be destroyed and that being bullied makes you weak and pathetic is worrying stuff from a grown man, you are clearly deeply disturbed. Your words hang you.
“Yeah like this government does to every decent hard working British citizen at the expense of the lazy, perverted and unwelcome!”
Oh so you are a victim them or the bullying government? In your world that makes you weak and pathetic and you deserrve it and as I am not being oppressed by the government that makes me stronger than you, no?
Great, I know your terrible ideas would come in useful…my, what sillines you spout, you have a lot of anger which is worrying.
And if you really do have kids then I do feel very sorry for them indeed.
Your own words paint a picture of an angry, disturbed man, scared of many things, seek help and try to find some peace.
Glad to see you have taken back the desire to have me murdered by the people I work with, shame you said it in the first place, shows you to be a very disturbed man.
July 9, 2009 at 3:55 am
Oh Hoffers, what a deluded southern middle-class bastard you really are…
Nottingham is in the north… FUCK OFF!!!
If you are unemployed for over 6 months, you must be picky or in need or some training: Erm… No, it’s just most people need £300+ p/w to make going to work worthwhile! Most casual jobs now are NMW which is £200 p/w (work it out!) Minus rent and all the rest of it, you are no better off than being on dole are ya!?
But no, cunts like you need to be seen to be doing something…
Here’s a proposal:
Why don’t we sack all of the likes of you and close down all your offices and use the money saved to employ the genuine non-parasite unemployed who want work?!
Let them get an honest decent wage for tidying this land up and making it a better place to live instead of subsidising politically correct wankers like you to sit in an office all day discussing the fate of some juvenile delinquent who should have been given the birch years ago!
Oh so you are a victim them or the bullying government: Not at all, this is what i’m trying to get through your thick odd-shaped skull, we wont give in to bullshit, the bullied will become the bully… Comprende?!
As for me being disturbed: I didnt know you could get a psychology degree where you could diagnose someone you have never met over the internet… But there again middle class southern shits like you always talk down to us northerners, you think you’re more intelligent than us don’t you?!
You are a silly old pretentious fool who through his privileged background has been presented with the opportunity to twist vulnerable childrens minds! A pervert in most people minds!
Keep up the erroneous personal insults you sad wannabe actor, you know fuck all about me besides whats in your twisted ill-informed imagination!
July 9, 2009 at 8:57 am
Did you leave school without a geography O-Level? Nottingham is in the Midlands but to many in the South that makes it North and the Northern parts of the county have a Yorkshire accent. Personally, I don’t care.
And middle-class is not an insult, unless you’re obsessed by class and money due to not having either.
It’s funny, your justification for people not going on the New Deal sounds rather like the excuses used by those who are avoiding work and if you need £300 a week (which I disagree with), pretty much anything is better than the £50.95 if 16 – 24 or £64.30 for 25 or over.
Your logic is flawed and you’re making excuses for, shock horror, the unemployed who previously you had no symapthy with. Methinks that due to your lack of intelligence you take an arguement not realising the effect upon your initial arguement. Oops!
“Most casual jobs now are NMW which is £200 p/w”
First of all this is wrong and not the case, most jobs are above minimum, unless you’re going for very low skilled work in which case, if you were young, Connexions would help you increase your skills so you can go for better work (work it out!).
Also, minimum wage brings in a monthly wage of £900+ a month which is far more than benefits, so you cut your cloth and work. It is odd you’re making excuses for people on the dole.
As for your “proposal”, it illustrates how little you know about the world, how on earth you expect the funds saved from closing down Connexions, which would increase unemployment, which would mean that support for young people would end, meaning greater crime and unemployment and then some how, you’d use the money to make jobs.
How?
You sound like a socialist, using government money to give people jobs…you’re more of a Communist than I’ll ever be, I’m all for a free global economy, not government creating jobs.
How would you determine the “genuine non-parasite unemployed” from those that don’t? Ha ha, you make me laugh, you have no idea of how to actually create change, just terrible ideas drawn from the dark ages. You’re funny.
You also seem to want to demean the people by making them work as cleaners? You also seem to want to increase the minimum wage, boy, you really are a socialist aren’t you?
In a nutshell, you want to close down a government agency that employs thousands and enables hundreds of thouands of people to be employed and use the money to employ the genuine unemployed as cleaners for an increased minimum wage?
I’d love to see you suggest that on Question Time!
Oh and you seem poorly informed about Connexions workers, we aren’t based in offices but all over the place, schools, youth centres, out on the street and sometimes at drop in centres.
As for the idea of bringing back capital pubishment in schools which never worked when it was there, I’ll let that hang you and expose you for what you are, a violent, mentally deranged bully.
“the bullied will become the bully”
Great, so you’ll become like the government you despise? Wonderful logic, you really are an idiot who types but does not think.
Yep, you’re disturbed, just from the ranting, anger, use of violence, threats and tone, you are not a well man.
You also seem to be projecting the idea of pervert, which is what you are clearly, onto me due to being ashamed of your own sexual feelings, as I said, I can suggest treatment for you. However, I am now glad you accept that vulnerable children exist, but earlier you described them as weak and pathetic and deserve to be bullied, by you no doubt?
Your logic is so flawed it’s quite funny to use it against you.
And it was you that started the personal insults because that is all you’re capable of, not intelligent debate.
FYI: I’m very happy and I’m not a wannabe, I make a living from acting, which is lovely.
July 9, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Sorry but Nottingham is in the midlands, and has never been in the north, look at a map for fucks sake! Are Londoners really that ignorant?!
My mates who were put on new deal have been abused by do-gooder cunts like you. They were made to work for their dole, which worked out at £1.53 an hour. My grievance is if they can get away with it now, why is any company gonna employ people properly when they can go down the dole office and press-gang a couple of idiots and not have to pay them? Those idiots will have to do as they are told or lose everything… Slavery springs to mind!
Yes you do need £300 p/w, take off £100 rent, council tax, and all the other things that you suddenly get stung with when you become employed and it doesn’t leave much out of £200 for working a 40 hour week does it?!
And no, I have not suddenly started championing the cause of the bone idle, I am merely pointing out that these cunts do not want to work and employers don’t want them, so why bother throwing tax-payers money at the likes of you to interfere and meddle in their lives when that money could be spent giving someone a decent wage doing something constructive!
Yes I would close down any agency that allows weirdos like you access to schools, youth centres etc. As i pointed out, if a company needs skilled staff it must be made to train them itself, not at the expense of the tax-payer!
Capital punishment in schools?! Where did I say that you fucking muppet?!
Then we go into Hoffman Freud mode again…
Sorry, but I’m not from the chattering classes, I’m from a totally different background to yourself, you can be as condescending as you like, but the fact remains you’ll never understand working class people and the hatred they harbour for interfering busy-bodies like you… And it has nothing whatsoever to do with jealousy, in fact some working class people (including myself) are probably more affluent in real terms than you!
But the class thing is not about wealth!
No doubt people like you make allowances for the irish, the blacks, the muslims etc. But when it’s the white working class English that feel angry, you suddenly accuse them of being mentally ill!
So yeah, fuck off and enjoy your five-bean salad and a nice glass of pinot grigio with your camp RADA friends whilst I fuck off down the pub and talk to some real people!
PS. Where do I make threats? Where is the use of violence you refer to? And how has the issue of ’sex’ entered this debate?
Seriously Hoffers-G, you’re the one with underlying mental issues, not me!
Seek professional help you fucking saddo!
July 10, 2009 at 8:49 am
If you live in the South, Nottingham is North, nothing to worry about there and alos by South I mean the entire South, not London as you steretype it, as bad as referring to a generic North no? There is more to the South than London? Unless you’re geography is that bad?
As I said and you seem to ignore, if you’re on New Deal you have been unemployed for a long period of time and yes, you are made to train and work for it, the idea being that perhaps you go and get a job before New Deal kicks in. It is clear that although you hate jobseeker scroungers, you find this idea hard to balance with friends that have experienced the system, which is typical, you think you have a political stance but when it comes close to home you justify the acts of your friends as the exception when in my experience, if you’re on New Deal then you are some what picky regarding what work you’ll take, either that or unrealistic or, for a small minority, lazy. No doubt that last one covers your friends.
Also, if any of your friends are over 25, you have to have been unemployed for 18 months, in which case you really need some help!
Also, you seem to forget that New Deal is a training course to make people more employable, something you fail to see in your partizan blindness. But I do find your defending of people on the dole (if they’re your mates) amusing.
As I said, you do not need £300 a week, first off your figure for rent is high, £400 a month is your in low paid work in unrealistic, you need to cut your cloth, as for council tax, if your earnings are in that bracket, ie: minimum wage, then you can claim council tax benefit to help.
You seem to live in a world that has no basis in your own ideas? And as I said, most work is above minimum wage so the analogy is flawed.
Yes, you are championing the rights of those that refuse to work, your friends for a start who have been claiming benefits for 6 months or perhaps even 18 months, good grief man, you need to apply the rule to those and not these imagined people you rant at.
The fact is, upto the econmic crisis unemployment was very low and represented, roughly, a hardcore of people who did not want to work. The situation now has changed a great deal with so many lay-offs, so laying into the unemployed enmasse is a failed attack on an easy target.
Your idea that an agency like Connexions that help keep unemployment down is a bad thing best reflects your knee-jerk response to government agencies, rather than actually seeing the good work they do. Such blind hatred is not constructive.
“As i pointed out, if a company needs skilled staff it must be made to train them itself, not at the expense of the tax-payer!”
Most companies do train their staff, what Connexions does is young people who need training to get on the ladder in the first place are helped out, which means they don’t turn to crime and joinging right-wing organisations that blame the foreigners. Education is the best tool to stop people becoming fascists, ignorance is the school of choice for bigots so no wonder you want these young people to be discarded, they make for fodder for idiots like the BNP.
“Capital punishment in schools?! Where did I say that you fucking muppet?!” You mentioned birching. And you lack of intelligence is getting quite funny.
It’s odd, you pretend to speak for working class people in the hope that by deluding yourself into becoming a mouthpiece you think that gives your views greater power, when in reality, you speak and represent no one but yourself and in turn, your silly ideas only reflect badly on you.
And it is rather pompous and self-important if you to think that you speak for a vast range fo people, when you don’t. You’re deluded, yuo speak for yourself only and no one else so do try and keep perspective.
You deny jealousy but than expose your personal wealth, failing to see that in itself shows your jealousy and deep sense of inferiority. And then you go on to say that: “But the class thing is not about wealth!” Ha ha, you seem to be confused and clearly you are someone ashamed of who you are and have to hide behind some flimsy banner of the idea of working-class, as if that somehow covers up your deep sense of shame.
Fascinating.
“No doubt people like you make allowances for the irish, the blacks, the muslims etc.” Lovely bit of general racism there but topped off by the hilarious notion that you represent the entire working class by saying: “when it’s the white working class English that feel angry, you suddenly accuse them of being mentally ill!”
Can you not see how funny you are? Can you not see that your puffed up sense of self-importance, ego and delusional sense that you are a spokesperson for a vast mass of society, when you are actually a mentally stunted racist who trots out tired old arguments that you’ve not thought through?
Seriously, I’d fear for the nation if you were the spokesman for the working class, thankully you’re just a bloke ranting on the Internet and most working class people would find your ideas repellent, stupid and slightly funny.
And your use of stereotypes is so funny I might have to put them on my blog, you’ll be furious to know that I hate five-bean salads, whatever they are but its odd how you seem to know about this ‘middle-class’ food, are you in denial? Do you pop to M&S in disguise to get some smoked salmon? I love some bangers and mash to be truthful.
And I don’t drink wine, I’m a real ale fan and member of CAMRA so I’ll have to have a pint of Sunchaser instead, you should try it if you’re not too busy being working class.
And if only you would fuck off.
PS: you seem to be regretting threats you’ve made to me in this tedious debate and your confessions of sexual behaviour, have no fear, you are forgiven
and I am always here for you.
July 11, 2009 at 3:13 am
if you are on new deal, you have been unemployed for a long period of time: SO in this economic climate you expect the unemployed to go straight back to work within 6 month?! Even though theres no job for them! If not, you are quite happy for them to be forced onto a slave labour scheme!?
My mates are not lazy… They just aint fucking stupid!
first off your figure for rent is high: GIve us a realistic figure for shit-hole london then! You’ll start gobbing off about working tax credits next! You genuinely expect people to live like vermin in order to legitimize your career?!
And as I said, most work is above minimum wage: Not much that it makes any difference!
upto the econmic crisis unemployment was very low: Yeah of course it was, all you can see is the bogus ‘jobseeker’ brigade, not the economically inactive who have been sponging off us for years under the guise of single mothers, depressed, fraudulent disabled, drug dependant etc…
an agency like Connexions that help keep unemployment down: Not REAL unemployment, just cooking the books at the tax-payers expenese!
Connexions does is young people who need training to get on the ladder in the first place are helped out, which means they don’t turn to crime and joining right-wing organisations that blame the foreigners: SO what you are saying is certain young vulnerable people who you can hoodwink and manipulate are given preference in the job selection process over other normal youngsters?!
Education is the best tool to stop people becoming fascists: EDucate yourself then! To call me uneducated or a fascist exposes you for the hypocritical ignoramus you truly are!
You mentioned birching: BIrching is classed as CORPORAL punishment you fucking simpleton!
yuo speak for yourself only and no one else: NOt true, i speak for a lot more people than you nancy-boy! PS. learn to spell (yuo?)
RE: Jealously… You may have more money than me, you may have a better standard of living than me as well, in fact I sincerely hope you have, but you clearly have no concept whatsoever about working-class pride. You do not understand the fact even if we have absolutely nothing, were still proud of what we are! And yes, this loyalty we have to one another is down to peer pressure, no back-stabbing or any of that shit, just people knowing their place in a real society, not the vacuous empty-headed shit you are trying to promote where everybody’s equal and must respect one another!
PS. The rest of your post is total bullshit and doesn’t deserve a reply!
July 12, 2009 at 8:13 pm
“PS. The rest of your post is total bullshit and doesn’t deserve a reply!”
In other words you have nothing to say to it, your ideas are in tatters. Having said that, all of your rants fit the above description.
“SO in this economic climate you expect the unemployed to go straight back to work within 6 month?!”
Never said, stop straw manning, you’re moving your argument position to suit your points which shows your lack of knowledge on the matter.
“My mates are not lazy… They just aint fucking stupid!”
That’s up for debate considering how you’re presetned them and as I said, if they’re over 25 they’ve been unemployed for 18 months, so that speaks for itself.
As I said to Southerner, the premise is wrong as if you’re in low paid work you get Housing and Council Tax benefit.
“You genuinely expect people to live like vermin in order to legitimize your career?!”
That doesn’t happen, you seem confused and have lost direction.
“And as I said, most work is above minimum wage: Not much that it makes any difference!”
Yes it does.
And as for your petty rant about various bug bears of yours, stop blaming people and take in the big picture.
“an agency like Connexions that help keep unemployment down: Not REAL unemployment, just cooking the books at the tax-payers expenese!”
False and no evidence for that silly idea.
No one is given preference, are you mental? You seem to not know what Connexions does but you have made up what it does and has a go at what it has never done.
Straw man!
Stop denying you’re a racist.
What is “BIrching”, do you mean birching? Isn’t picking on spelling when you’ve lost the argument?
I have to tell you, you don’t speak for anyone but you.
July 11, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Mr Hoffman-Gill,you have a fantastic skill of winding people up,that is where it ends. 100 pound a week rent isn’t far off the mark at all unless you live in a bedsit the size of a broom cupboard with a communal toilet which i’m sure you don’t.
I personally take home just under 300 quid a week
which leaves me a little spare cash to play around with. Any less than this then you really just work to exist. Thankfully i am not materialistic.
What is your salary Mr Gill,borderline minimum wage? Thought not,how else would you afford your
exotic holidays. Your’e blog is littered with pompous narcissism.You always attempt to belittle those that disagree with any of your self righteous opinions as ‘thick’ and ‘ignorant’.
Do not let your self importance as a z-list actor run away with you.Tell you what, you want to help Britains ‘yoof’,then try telling the white lads to stop talking like they have just stepped out of a Jamaican ghetto and act their race.
July 12, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I love how you accuse me of being a wind-up merchant when you and the other neo-fascist spend your time at a left-wing blog clearly with the sole aim of winding people up.
So no, this isn’t where it ends.
Also, the £100 a week rent is a flawed premise, I’ve already pointed out to Britain Having a Kip that if you were on minimum wage, you would also be eligible for Housing and Council Tax benefit.
Please keep up!
Also, I’m sorry if you can’t make ends meet but deal with it, Ive been poor in me time, I worked harder and I thought you lot were the ones supposed to be tough on lazy sods, seems the liberal here has to do it for you.
Finally, I care little for the rest of what you type, if you want to change how some young people speak, do it yourself.
July 12, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Yet again Danielle “i’m great” Hoffers-G totally misses the point!
He brands me a ‘neo-Fascist’ without actually knowing what Fascism is!
A Fascist to him is obviously someone who dares to differ from his own brainwashed mindset!
He then tries to infer that we are peasants and need to work harder, another example of the slave-driver mentality that lurks beneath his ‘do-gooder friend of the dispossessed’ veneer!
For the record Hoffers, before you start psycho-analysing again, I have a comfortable standard of living and don’t need to work harder. The last thing I want in my workplace is a load of low-paid degenerates making a nuisance of themselves.
Thats why I am so opposed to schemes such as connexions, new deal etc. If you need staff, you should go out and recruit the best man, and train him in your own time at your own expense!
This way a trainee has more respect for the company he works for, and makes for a better employee. But considering you have very little knowledge of REAL work this concept is probably lost on you!
Putting doleys through training courses at our expense makes the job market more competitive and eventually lowers everyones wages and standard of living.
PS. Regarding connexions and their £3 million ‘peer mentoring’ scheme to prevent bullying in schools. Don’t you realize that bullying can have a positive effect on the victim, and it’s good for building character…
Why would connexions want to prevent that I wonder?!
July 12, 2009 at 8:04 pm
No, you missed the point UK asleep.
Please don’t make me list what fascism is and make you look bad, go read some books and come back to me.
“low-paid degenerates making a nuisance of themselves.”
That seems to be your friends?
“Thats why I am so opposed to schemes such as connexions, new deal etc. If you need staff, you should go out and recruit the best man, and train him in your own time at your own expense!”
You have no idea of economics do you?
“This way a trainee has more respect for the company he works for”
I’ve set many people up as trainees that have gone on to great success. Cool.
“Putting doleys through training courses at our expense makes the job market more competitive and eventually lowers everyones wages and standard of living.”
No it doesn’t, you’re basically trying to suggest that you need to keep some people down to avoid pushing levels of learning higher.
Oh dear.
“PS. Regarding connexions and their £3 million ‘peer mentoring’ scheme to prevent bullying in schools. Don’t you realize that bullying can have a positive effect on the victim, and it’s good for building character…”
Clearly, you’ve never worked with people who’ve been bullied, the old character building chestnut is just that, a chestnut with little connection to reality.
That surprises me little.
July 12, 2009 at 9:16 pm
I wouldn’t expect my friends to be as stupid as work for peanuts, and the ones who were forced to work for their benefit I have actively encouraged to cause mischief, sabotage, thieve and intimidate wherever they were placed!
A shortage of skilled workers is a problem for employers, yes. But a deluge of skilled workers is a bigger problem for employees, it gives employers the upper hand, and it helps them drive wages down…
But that wont affect the likes of you, so you don’t care!
You bleat: “Clearly, you’ve never worked with people who’ve been bullied”
I’ve worked with the snivelling, self-pitying weaklings you speak of, and believe me they don’t last long!
Sending ‘mentors’ into schools to basically monitor the weak and vulnerable is somewhat sinister if you ask me, but there again so is the whole connexions/common purpose agenda that you so enthusiastically embrace…
Preying on (not helping) the weak is your modus operandi…
Bullying by another name!
July 13, 2009 at 9:30 am
In your first paragraph you talk about trying to get people to commit criminal acts, which isn’t very clever is it? It’s an act that paints you in a terrible light.
Also, you keep banging on about your friends who have been unemployed for 18 months, most work out there was not minimum wage, you seem to have missed this point and like many others, ignore it because you have no answers.
“A shortage of skilled workers is a problem for employers, yes. But a deluge of skilled workers is a bigger problem for employees”
Just to be clear, the former situation is the case, we still need to increase our skilled work force, the idea that too many people with skills is a bad thing, when in reality we are far off that and we need all the skilled employees we can get in the UK, shows your twisted mindset and how little you understand economics.
And again, you attack children who have been bullied which is again bullying and also reflects badly on your moral compass.
What kind of pathetic creature attacks children who are being bullied?
The answer is you.
“Sending ‘mentors’ into schools to basically monitor the weak and vulnerable is somewhat sinister if you ask me”
Again, wrong and shows how little you understand of mentoring, which is a proven effective device to support thopse those that need it so that school is not a plce of failure for them because they are scared but a place of success.
Mentors do not monitor, children being bullied are not weak you hateful little man and as for sinister, only in your twisted mind could supporteing those in need be sinister but then you have knee-jerk response to anyone helping anyone don’t you?
“Preying on (not helping) the weak is your modus operandi…”
No, Connexions helps people, something you struggle to grasp because you are thick and because you’re not really sure what you’re talking about and thus, you flail around for coherent ideas.
Try harder!
July 13, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Civil disobedience is something your type condone when it’s some ethnic committing the act. Your type can always justify blacks rioting etc. But when it’s whites doing the exact same you condemn them…
Double standards in other words!
We live in the north, jobs aren’t that plentiful or well paid! But there again we wouldn’t want to live in an ‘enriched’ shithole like London!
Too many people with skills is a bad thing, yes it is, it lowers wages and creates unemployment, which is what your type want! Whats the point of training a million people to be plumbers when there isn’t even 500,000 vacancies?!
We need jobs WITH training, not training with the hope of a job after it! Thats just fucking pointless and a waste of money!
RE: The bullying issue, whereas I don’t condone bullying, I do realize you can never stop it and should never try as interfering busy-bodies sticking their beaks in ultimately make it worse for the victim.
Why are you so determined to get in there and stop it… A good dose of bullying and intimidation is character-building and gives the victim resilient qualities they would otherwise lack, maybe thats the real reason you want to prevent it, so these saps are putty in your hand!
Kindness & compassion for these bastards will only get thrown back in your face, and in your case I predict with disastrous consequences!
Nobody helps anybody in this day and age you soppy old bastard, we live in a cruel, brutal, vicious world. Get used to it!
Take that swollen head of yours out of the clouds!
July 14, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Britain Dozed Off In Front of the TV:
I get the sense that on many issues I am more right-wing than you! For a start off I have no time for civil disobedience at all, esp. you commiting of criminal acts, seriously, you’re a right old lefty aren’t you? Bloody Communist!
I love how you have a more left-wing view on this than me but yet accuse me of holding the view, straw man in maximum effect!
“We live in the north, jobs aren’t that plentiful or well paid! But there again we wouldn’t want to live in an ‘enriched’ shithole like London!”
Your choice, deal with it instead of bloody moaning and blaming everyone for your strife and worries, you’re a right soft sod, pull yourself together man. Are you sure you aren’t a liberal? You whinge like one.
“Too many people with skills is a bad thing”
See, that is where you look stupid because we are a long, long way off having a high skilled pool of workers and the idea that high skilled workforce equals lower wages and unemployment is another illustration of your slight grasp on matters of the economy.
“Whats the point of training a million people to be plumbers when there isn’t even 500,000 vacancies?!”
This is a fictional situation and more straw men, all you do is make-up ideas and then attack them, you could have this argument on your own.
“We need jobs WITH training, not training with the hope of a job after it! Thats just fucking pointless and a waste of money!”
You don’t seem to know about Modern Apprenticeships which are exactly that, jobs with training, indeed any employer worth their salt trains their employees to keep them on top of their game in whatever field they work.
Glad to see you’re back tracking on bullying and accepting your wrong after saying:
(in reference to people who are bullied) “I’ve worked with the snivelling, self-pitying weaklings you speak of, and believe me they don’t last long! ”
(in reference to the idea that being bullied is good) “Don’t you realize that bullying can have a positive effect on the victim, and it’s good for building character…”
(in reference to bullying) “It destroys the lives of the weak and pathetic!”
(and again) “Why interfere with natures way of determining the pecking order?”
All of which says you think that bullying is good but glad to see you’ve retreated on that silly position. Break through for you! Well done!
Oh and I missed this gem of child abuse: “A good dose of bullying and intimidation is character-building” seriously, you have a lot of issues with power, strength and anger that are quite damaged and you wouldn’t be let within 100 miles of any children and I pity yours.
“Kindness & compassion for these bastards will only get thrown back in your face, and in your case I predict with disastrous consequences!”
Never has done yet, after 12 years so you’re wrong again, oops and I love the disastrous consequences, which is again inferring that I come to harm, seriously, threats are no use here and not clever.
“Nobody helps anybody in this day and age you soppy old bastard, we live in a cruel, brutal, vicious world. Get used to it!”
At last, an out and out confession of your damaged world view, I read that and feel sorry for you, as that statement reflects the barren and negative nature of your life, clearly you’re unhappy otherwise you wouldn’t feel so nihilistic about it. That’s a shame your life is such a mess and that is your experience.
Good luck getting your life back on track.
July 14, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Daniel Hoffman Gill said ”I’m sorry if you can’t make ends meet but deal with it….”
I do deal with it,i wasn’t saying i can’t. I am not in debt,don’t take out rip off loans,own a credit card or pretend to lead a flash lifestyle.
What is your salary again?
July 15, 2009 at 10:02 am
None of your business, just as your salary is none of mine, however, you were the one to moan like alefty about it so don’t get all het-up when you’re challenged on it.
And I thought you’d had your fianl word on the matter?
HA HA!
July 14, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Hoffman – Freud croaks: “At last, an out and out confession of your damaged world view…”
So being realistic is now to be classed as having a damaged ‘world view’?!
Thats straight out of Orwell that is!
July 15, 2009 at 10:04 am
I’ve noticed that you use a lot of references and not knwo what they mean.
Here you use Freud as a sweeping term for psychology, whilst trying to defend your damaged world view that you claim is realistic and as I’ve said, if that is realistic for your life then your life is in a very bad state. Again, stop trying to speak for all, it makes you look bad.
Also, you don’t know anything about Orwell either.
Poor you.
July 14, 2009 at 10:30 pm
“Good luck getting your life back on track.”
Thanks Danielle, if only we could all be as great as you eh?!
You really are one pompous and narcissistic bastard.
Back to the issue of bullying though, what are your views on bullying in the workplace, armed forces , or prison?
Bullying is rife in those institutions, or is it only children you are interested in?!
When I was at school, any kid who went running to the teachers made a rod for their own back, they made life ten times worse for themselves, passive bullying in the playground would turn to direct aggressive bullying outside the school gates.
This, I’m afraid to have to tell you is the way of the world, and no amount of social engineering is ever gonna change that!
The only way to combat bullying is to fight fire with fire, to develop a backbone and stand up to the aggressor. Wasting £3 million to have your people snooping round schools isn’t gonna solve anything!
July 15, 2009 at 10:10 am
Again you use words you don’t know the mneaning of, in this case ‘pompous’ and ‘narcissistic’. It is you who have tried to make out your life is better (and at the same time worse, which just about sums up the terrible way you discuss things) and it is you who has tried to speak for millions of people and presumed you are their voice.
Also, I never said my life was better, I was merely commenting on the barren wasteground that is your.
“Back to the issue of bullying though, what are your views on bullying in the workplace, armed forces , or prison?”
You want my views? Don’t make me laugh, this tedious Internet comment nonsense started because you keep coming back to a left-wing blog to be a troll. I’m not feeding you with any more views.
July 15, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Mr Gill,please grasp basic English and understanding,i wasn’t moaning,i was stating my situation.
Seems to me you don’t like to admit that you are wealthy whilst attempting to play some sort of hero who the working class look up to. I suppose this is where your acting ‘’skills” come into effect.
You do not fool everyone you neo-narci [neo-narcissist].
aaaahhh that big house,those exotic holidays,lavish lifestyle and the Dead Kennedys[?].
July 15, 2009 at 7:55 pm
“please grasp basic English and understanding,i wasn’t moaning,i was stating my situation.”
Before you start lecturing me on basic English, check your own bad self! And thanks for stating your situation, not sure why we needed to know it but cool.
As for admitting my own personal wealth, not quite sure what I earn has owt to do with the discussion to be honest and being the Internet where daft racist trolls abound, giving personal details is never a wise move.
But to be clear, I’ve never played working class hero or banged on about people looking up to me, you’ll have to quote me to prove that, I’ve seen plenty of that nonsense from Britain having a Snooze but not me.
“you neo-narci [neo-narcissist].”
That actually made me laugh out loud, so cheers for that, mainly because you’ve invented a new silly phrase in neo-narci and then you’ve had to explain it in the brackets. Hah! You’re funny, keep ‘em coming!
“aaaahhh that big house,those exotic holidays,lavish lifestyle and the Dead Kennedys[?].”
Not sure where you got this from? Clearly you’ve gone on me blog to figure out I went to Saint Lucia, which I didn’t realise was a crime, as for big house, not really and Dead Kennedys?
What has a the fact I own Dead Kennedys records got to do with it?
Bizarre but amusing.
July 15, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Some people can fool all of the people some of the time…
Some people can fool some of the people all of the time…
Hoffers-G can fool none of the people none of the time despite his so-called acting credentials!
His grasp of the English language is appalling for someone who supposedly ‘treads the boards’
July 15, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Again you try and speak for the people when you speak for yourself alone.
As for grasp on the English language, when you live in a massive glass house shaped like a swastika, I wouldn’t chuck stones sweetheart.
July 15, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Also, treads the boards doesn’t need apostrophes and supposedly is an odd thing to throw in when it’s a documented fact but hey, when has truth stopped you making things up?
Also, my acting credentails are not so-called, unless you can’t read them that is, in which case I have an audio-described version for the visually impaired.
Give us a shout if you need that!
July 16, 2009 at 7:17 am
What ARE your views on bullying in the workplace, armed forces , or prison?
Or does that not matter to you?!
July 16, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Why does it matter to you?
This debate is over.
July 16, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Thought as much, you are not opposed to bullying per se, merely using the issue to interfere in childrens lives and twist their minds.
Paedophiles have more dignity than the likes of you!
July 17, 2009 at 9:46 am
I am opposed to bullying in every single context.
Clear?
Britain Awake on the other hand approves of bullying, Britian Awake thinks that the bullying of weak and patheitic children is acceptable, thus Britan Awake support the mental and physical abuse of children.
Britain Awake also makes up what other people think and with the straw man built, compares their moral code to that of someone who sexually abuses children.
Britian Awake needs to read the last sentence and realise how disgusting their behaviour is and that some things have no place in a decent debate.
July 17, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Young people must learn to fend for themselves as soon as possible without namby-pamby fannies like you mollycoddling them!
And I certainly do not condone bullying, it’s just your approach towards it is counter-productive!
July 17, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Oh dear. You’re digging yourself deeper into a hole here, you are now inferring an unhealthy interest in children which quite frankly is pretty disgusting wouldn’t you think?
So, according to you, people that work with young people do so out of an unhealthy interest?
You are a sick man, in order to drag the debate down you throw around nasty slurs that are deeply, deeply dangerous accusations to make.
You know nothing of young people or children.
And stop back tracking on bullying, you are on record here as supporting it, esp. weak and pathetic children as you call them and that they should be bullied.
July 17, 2009 at 4:35 pm
“You know nothing of young people or children”
Unlike you obviously!
Yet again you make silly accusations regarding my mental health, you call me ’sick’ for having the nerve to question your motives…
It’s not fascism when you do it eh?!
Why are you so preoccupied with helping(interfering with) young disturbed peoples lives?! You honestly think these wretched people give a fuck about anything?!
Danielle, you live in a fucking bubble, and one day that bubble will burst, and it will be the people you have been trying to help who burst it!
Good luck… You’re gonna need it!
July 17, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Yes, unlike me, I’ve worked with children and young people for 17 years in a professional context.
I call you sick because you use awful, awful insults that show much of your moral character that are libel to someone to works with young people for a living.
And you call young people and children “wretched people”, yet more abuse heaped on children by you.
And finally, you presume again that the people I work with with attack me, in other words you wish violence against me, in other words, you are trying to threaten me; again.
July 17, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Danielle… You have very, very serious underlying mental health issues. I do not class children or young people as ‘wretched’, I class the scum you associate with as that!
I wish no harm to you Hoffers, how you come to that conclusion only your own twisted bitter little mind will know, I have never threatened you, I merely pointed out you deal with a dog who will bite the hand that feeds it!
You need to take a very serious look in the mirror, you have more hate inside you than any right-winger…
Seek professional help!
July 17, 2009 at 5:05 pm
You are projecting your own pain onto me.
The people I associate with, who you have no idea who they are, what they are and what they are like, you call scum and wretched.
What a vile character you are.
I do not deal with dogs, aside from you here, you lowly, ugle piece of hateful work. Stop trying to back track on your open threats to me.
As for hate, you have so much you just can’t stay away.